[xwiki-users] Off-topic: Xwiki and VMs

Discussion:

Andreas Hahn

2011-03-10 09:55:54 UTC

Hi Johannes, everyone,

actually this is sort of repsonse to Johannes @jstoldt contribution here
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Back-to-the-future-of-XWiki-tt6084764.html
regarding VM's and it is off-topic in either dev and user.

Johannes, why not drill deeper into this VM stuff ?
If you have spare time leftover and want to contribute -
why not be the first one to create an Amazon EC2 xwiki image ?

For newbies there are free Amazon EC2 accounts:
http://aws.amazon.com/de/free/

When creating a VM I'd check for an Ubuntu Ready-to-go image - there are
several hanging around.
Check the Ubuntu website for a recommendation.
Of course Linux background is beneficial - might be mandatory.
However with Ubuntu many installations are pretty straight forward and
well documented -
installation of database (postgres ?) - webserver (tomcat ?) and an
XWiki .war should be straightforward.

When you're are done and all is running fine you can make a template of
it for others to use.

I'd be interested in a report.
I'd love to do it but I'm lacking time now ...

As here is no real forum for this we might continue correspondence in
another place.

WDYT ?

Andreas

Ludovic Dubost

2011-03-10 10:16:53 UTC

Permalink

I think it's kind of easy to create one VM. The issue is that we need an
easy way to create them everytime there is a new version.
Best would be a solution to create them using maven. We should check if
there is any progress in this area.

Ludovic

Post by Andreas Hahn
Hi Johannes, everyone,
http://xwiki.475771.n2.nabble.com/Back-to-the-future-of-XWiki-tt6084764.html
regarding VM's and it is off-topic in either dev and user.
Johannes, why not drill deeper into this VM stuff ?
If you have spare time leftover and want to contribute -
why not be the first one to create an Amazon EC2 xwiki image ?
http://aws.amazon.com/de/free/
When creating a VM I'd check for an Ubuntu Ready-to-go image - there are
several hanging around.
Check the Ubuntu website for a recommendation.
Of course Linux background is beneficial - might be mandatory.
However with Ubuntu many installations are pretty straight forward and
well documented -
installation of database (postgres ?) - webserver (tomcat ?) and an
XWiki .war should be straightforward.
When you're are done and all is running fine you can make a template of
it for others to use.
I'd be interested in a report.
I'd love to do it but I'm lacking time now ...
As here is no real forum for this we might continue correspondence in
another place.
WDYT ?
Andreas
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users

--
Ludovic Dubost
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XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

Vincent Massol

2011-03-10 10:20:34 UTC

Permalink

I think it's kind of easy to create one VM. The issue is that we need an easy way to create them everytime there is a new version.
Best would be a solution to create them using maven. We should check if there is any progress in this area.

On this topic I had created
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-3243

-Vincent

Ludovic

Andreas Hahn

2011-03-10 11:04:32 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ludovic Dubost
I think it's kind of easy to create one VM. The issue is that we need
an easy way to create them everytime there is a new version.
Best would be a solution to create them using maven. We should check
if there is any progress in this area.

I see. But this approach doesn't help users for the migration of their
existing instances - right ?
And you are moving huge data (AMIs) around 10+GB i guess. So why not go
with a single image that may be old and have the same update
instructions / procedure for new and existing instances ?

Andreas

Post by Ludovic Dubost
Ludovic

jstoldt

2011-03-10 11:41:30 UTC

Permalink

Hi everyone,

First of all, I agree with Ludovic and Vincent, a new VM should be created
every time a new version is out. It obviously is a lot of data that needs to
be stored but the problem with not having an up to date VM is that people
who just want to check out XWiki in a ready to go and possibly production
ready environment most likely do not want to bother with setting up the VM
and immediately having to upgrade the XWiki instance before they can try the
latest version.

Anyway, either I did not make myself clear or you missed the notion that I
am not really a huge fan of VMs. On the one hand it can be hard to integrate
pre-built VMs with a companies IT systems, on the other hand, AFAIK, there
is no really free VM software that can be used in corporations.

What I had in mind was a package that will provide everything necessary to
easily create a ready-for-production-use environment including an easy to
use configuration wizard. I further thought about upgrade packages and
restructuring the XE documents to ease upgrading.

Also, I am neither very familiar with VMs nor Linux, so I am probably really
not the best person for doing this kind of a job.

Regards,
Johannes

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Vincent Massol

2011-03-10 11:57:09 UTC

Permalink

Hi Johannes,

I'm not sure I understand you here.

If you want something already made for you you have to pay something for it (since someone will need to host your solution, set it up, maintain it, etc).

* xwiki.org offers myxwiki.org (paid by XWiki SAS) for non business needs (non profit + individuals)
* XWiki SAS offers XWiki Cloud: http://www.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Offer/Cloud

Now for upgrades, this is the role of the Extension Manager to handle the application upgrade part (which is the only hard part of the upgrade).

Post by jstoldt
Anyway, either I did not make myself clear or you missed the notion that I
am not really a huge fan of VMs. On the one hand it can be hard to integrate
pre-built VMs with a companies IT systems, on the other hand, AFAIK, there
is no really free VM software that can be used in corporations.

Personally I agree that I'd prefer to focus xwiki.org devs on install wizard, extension manager, etc rather than building VMs which is more business-oriented IMO and is costly to do (XWiki SAS or other companies could provide this for business users).

Thanks
-Vincent

Andreas Hahn

2011-03-10 13:13:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by jstoldt
Hi everyone,
First of all, I agree with Ludovic and Vincent, a new VM should be created
every time a new version is out. It obviously is a lot of data that needs to
be stored but the problem with not having an up to date VM is that people
who just want to check out XWiki in a ready to go and possibly production
ready environment most likely do not want to bother with setting up the VM
and immediately having to upgrade the XWiki instance before they can try the
latest version.
Anyway, either I did not make myself clear or you missed the notion that I
am not really a huge fan of VMs. On the one hand it can be hard to integrate
pre-built VMs with a companies IT systems, on the other hand, AFAIK, there
is no really free VM software that can be used in corporations.

FWIW: http:www.virtualbox.org is truly FOSS easy to deploy and maintain
on Linux and Windows
- very mature and we're running small farm on it. Highly recommendable.
Many hosters use XEN (just Linux) however.

Post by jstoldt
What I had in mind was a package that will provide everything necessary to
easily create a ready-for-production-use environment including an easy to
use configuration wizard. I further thought about upgrade packages and
restructuring the XE documents to ease upgrading.
Also, I am neither very familiar with VMs nor Linux, so I am probably really
not the best person for doing this kind of a job.
Regards,
Johannes
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jstoldt

2011-03-10 13:29:27 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

Vincent, about the part you had trouble understanding, I was merely trying
to reason why the idea Andreas had about only creating a VM every once in a
while and not on a regular basis (i.e. for every version) is not good
according to my oppinion. Anyway, great that we agree on the wizard and so
forth.

Andreas, about VirtualBox, at least the full edition is not suitable for
business use if the company aims for using software with a free license. The
extension for RDP, for instance, is not part of the Open Source Edition
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Box#Licensing and
http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads). Be that as it may, I am not all
in favor for VMs for the other reasons I mentioned so we do not have to
discuss this bit in length.

Regards,
Johannes

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AngeloG

2011-03-11 10:28:34 UTC

Permalink

Hi everybody,
if I can give my suggestions, working in Windows environment, VM are often
related to VMWare products, which indeed are market leaders. VMWare provides
also a free VMplayer which can be used in business environment, at least for
testing purpouse.
This was the way I approched Xwiki, looking for a Virtual Appliance, as
VMWare call it, ready to go, without loosing too much time in configuring
and installing. By the way if you go to www.vmware.com/appliances/ and
search 'xwiki' you do find it: Ubuntu 8.10 with MySQL Server, Tomcat 6,
OpenJDK 6, and XWiki Enterprise 1.7.1. and indeed it does not look too much
up-to-date.
So, in my opinion, a new user, or someone who want to look inside and
compare, would be pleased to find a downloadable Virtual Appliance with a
quite recent release of XWiki ready-to-go to play with, in these days let's
say version 2.7 or 2.6, not necessarly always the latest release or patch,
since once started the VM and xwiki can be upgraded.
Xwiki.org could have a Virtual Appliance download section (provided someone
creates the VMs!) and/or could promote itself at VMWare site.
Since I am not involved in any business with VMWare I have to say there are
other solutions like VirtualBox, Xen, ... and an opensource format for VMs
that can be converted in the preferred one by the user.
At the end the suggestion is to have a section dedicated to VMs of any kind
downloadable from xwiki.org site.
Angelo Ghisoni

Post by jstoldt
Hi,
Vincent, about the part you had trouble understanding, I was merely trying
to reason why the idea Andreas had about only creating a VM every once in
a while and not on a regular basis (i.e. for every version) is not good
according to my oppinion. Anyway, great that we agree on the wizard and so
forth.
Andreas, about VirtualBox, at least the full edition is not suitable for
business use if the company aims for using software with a free license.
The extension for RDP, for instance, is not part of the Open Source
Edition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Box#Licensing and
http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads). Be that as it may, I am not all
in favor for VMs for the other reasons I mentioned so we do not have to
discuss this bit in length.
Regards,
Johannes

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